The Future of Farming and How it Affects YOU with Don Smith

Don: [00:00:00] Right now, the way we grow plants, it’s, it’s not about nutritional density. It’s about yield. Right, so we’re able to get the yield using our magic formulas that we use with lots of chemicals, etc. So we’re doing a chemistry set instead of a biological process. We’re more involved in, okay, well, if I give it this much nitrogen, this much potassium and this much phosphorus, I know I’m going to get this yield.

But is that yield high quality? And the answer is no. It’s not. And you can test it. The USDA has really long running tests that show the nutritional quality’s gone down over the decades for like the last 80 years. 

Hope: Do you want to wake up feeling like you’re stepping into who you’re meant to be? Into the best possible version of you?

What if I told you that the key to your best life, health, and happiness are all around you? You just have to find what works for you. I’m Hope Pedraza and I believe that there isn’t just one way to live a healthy and meaningful life. And that all you need is a little inspiration to make changes that last from the inside out.[00:01:00] 

Each week, I’ll be sharing tangible tips and inspirational interviews to help you on your journey. These are the steps to take to improve your life and live with purpose. This is Hopeful and Wholesome. Hey y’all, thanks for listening today. Today I have on the show Don Smith. Don is a member of the leadership program at Kiss the Ground.

Now, Kiss the Ground is an organization that’s bringing awareness to return to farming. And how this is the solution to sustainable farming methods that are going to heal the planet. Don is a speaker, a teacher. He’s a student of regenerative agriculture and regenerative lifestyles. Today, we talk about this organization, what he’s doing with kiss the ground and what they are doing to change conventional farming methods to make lasting changes in our bodies and on the planet.

This is a really interesting conversation. And I think really important for all of us to understand exactly what they’re doing to make changes in the planet. I think it’s really going to make a difference in climate change and y’all enjoy. [00:02:00] Okay, y’all, so let’s get going. I’m really excited to bring on Don today and Don is from Kiss the Ground and I’m really excited about this conversation because we’re talking about regenerative farming, climate change, and I’m really excited to learn more from Don.

So thank you so much for joining me today. 

Don: Sure, Hope. This is awesome. 

Hope: Yeah. So for everyone listening who has no idea what I’m talking about, can you tell everybody what exactly regenerative farming is and why it’s important? 

Don: Wow, sure. The quick version is Regenerative farming is Completely different than how most farming is done today Which is really following in the degenerative model that we’ve been doing for thousands of years It’s just that recently it’s become really degenerative farming So regenerative means that you’re making the soil better over time Whereas degenerative farming, over time, the soil is getting worse, meaning that you can grow less food, you’ve got less biodiversity, [00:03:00] just a host of issues that arise with degenerative farming, soil erosion, et cetera.

So, we’re not growing nutritious food in the degenerative model, right? We’re applying lots of chemicals. Killing soil biology, which is important for plant health. So the plants aren’t as healthy as they should be and then we’re eating that and so we’re not as healthy as we should be because we’re not getting all the trace minerals that we used to get and a whole host of other beneficial chemical compounds that come from plants that are truly healthy.

So, then how is that really important? Well, it’s really important because one of the things that degenerate does is it takes carbon out of the soil and turns it into a gaseous form in the form of carbon dioxide, which is part of this thing that we call global warming. And if you don’t believe in it, you can at least agree that there’s more carbon in the atmosphere than there used to be.

And where you can put it, the only place [00:04:00] that you can put this excess carbon that’s up in the atmosphere without causing additional damage is actually the soil. So that’s why regenerative farming Is really talking about taking carbon out of the atmosphere and putting it into the soil where it does a host of goods, right?

It improves water infiltration. It improves water holding capacity. It improves the, literally, the homes for microbes that are so important for making food nutritious, right? The microbiome. And you can’t really have great soil without a high organic matter content. And organic matter is a form of carbon, right?

Everything that’s organic is actually made of carbon compound. 

Hope: Right. 

Don: That’s the short answer. 

Hope: Yeah. No, I like it. No. So then what is the organization that you’re with kiss the ground? What are y’all doing to help? I guess bring awareness. What are y’all doing in that regenerative farming field? 

Don: so really we were [00:05:00] we started out because Nobody had really heard about a solution that climate change that had to do with agriculture and the founders Heard that and it was the first hopeful thing They’d heard about a solution to climate change was Oh my gosh, the way we grow our food could actually have an impact on climate change.

So our goal has really been to raise awareness about how to do that and get people interested in where the food comes from, how it’s grown, how it impacts their health, how it impacts the health of the environment, and literally the health of the entire planet. So we’ve done everything from short videos, info, graphics, tons of talks and TED Talks and conferences and everything imaginable.

And we have a, there’s a book out called Kiss the Ground. And later this year, we will finally be releasing a movie with the same name called Kiss the Ground. [00:06:00] 

And that’s going to be a, you know, a feature length documentary. And, uh, it’s going to be, you know, Pretty awesome that we finally got, you know, after seven years we finally have our movie Which was one of the things that when we first started was okay, we’re gonna make a movie and it’s just been such a process Yeah, so our goal is to educate and also to help fund farmers In this transition process to help fund their education so that more and more farmers can learn about this and see that, wow, it’s actually, not only is it better for me as a farmer, it’s better for the land, but they can actually make more money, which is really what’s going to drive the model forward, right?

If it’s not economically viable, then no one’s going to do it. 

Hope: Right, exactly. And then what does that look like? What exactly are y’all helping the farmers do? Like, what are they changing? What are they doing differently? 

Don: Well, once again, it’s always about context. So that would depend. Are you a corn and soy farmer?

Are you a wheat [00:07:00] farmer? Cattle farmer? Whatever you’re doing, and I guess I should say cattle rancher, but whatever it is, there’s going to be something in your context, meaning your ecosystem, your climate, etc. That you could do in a way that would be regenerative, if you will. So for a standard, let’s say someone’s growing a crop, we could just apply certain principles to that.

And the goal is to have photosynthesis occurring. As much as possible on that piece of land, whereas typically a lot of farmers will leave their land bare. It’s like, well, I’m not going to grow anything that’s going to give me a, you know, a yield at the moment, but I’m going to plant in March. The rest of the, you know, and they’re going to, maybe they’re going to grow through September or something like that.

And then the rest of the year, it’s completely bare. Sometimes it’s bare even nine months out of the year, it’s bare. And then they’ll do things like spray it with herbicides so that there’s no [00:08:00] weeds growing and it’s completely bare soil. Well, we don’t think about this, but our soil is a living organism, right?

It’s filled with microbes. Well, what do they eat? It turns out they get fed by plants. They get fed by plants breathing in carbon dioxide and exuding some of that carbon in the form of carbohydrates through their roots. And that’s what feeds these microbes. Why would a plant even feed microbes, right?

They do that because the microbes provide them with literally the minerals that they need. And some of them even help provide water as well. So it’s a symbiotic relationship. And what we’re trying to do is encourage photosynthesis as much of the years possible so that we’re feeding the microbes as much as possible.

So that when you do plant your actual cash crop that’s going to thrive because there’s a microbial population there waiting. Typically we’ve killed off the majority of soil organic matter and the microbes that [00:09:00] inhabit the soil. So I go out on large farms all the time. I can’t find an earthworm, right?

You go out there with a shovel and you’re looking on an organic field. That’s thousands of acres, literally thousands of acres. And you go out with a shovel and you’d think, well, it’s organic. There’s going to be earthworms all over the place. And you can’t find an earthworm. 

Hope: It’s crazy. 

Don: It’s crazy. And that has to do with tillage, right?

So some of it is how often do you drag a tractor across the land and turn the soil? So not all tillage is bad But most of the time tillage is very disruptive to the soil itself the soil building system Which depends on microbes so picture you live in a house And somebody comes by with a bulldozer every few months and flattens it.

Then you rebuild and then they flatten it. Well, pretty soon you get kind of tired of that and you decide to go somewhere else or you die because the bulldozer accidentally ran you over, whatever. I mean, that’s kind of dramatic, but that’s really what’s happening. 

Hope: No, it’s a good [00:10:00] visual. 

Don: It’s super destructive.

Hope: Yeah. 

Don: And that’s what we do, and we think that’s normal, but it’s really, there’s ways to do it where you minimize tillage, keep your soil covered as much as possible so it’s not exposed to the elements. 

Hope: Yeah. And then what’s the alternative to that? So if they’re not telling it, then what are they doing?

Don: Well, it depends if they were growing let’s say a multi species cover crop instead of having it bare, right? They grow up all these different plants at once. They’re all feeding the soil. They have a really dense stand It literally cuts down on the weeds because they’re shading out all the weeds and then they lightly disc that into the soil. And instead of doing something that’s really deep, where they’re turning their soil, you know, 12 inches deep, they might be disking that into the top few inches. Or they might not even be disking, they might just roll it down flat. 

Hope: Mm hmm. 

Don: And squish it with something called a roller crimper. There’s different ways to do it. And then they plant directly into that plant residue. [00:11:00] And they haven’t tilled the soil at all. What that does is when you don’t till the soil, you leave all the soil aggregates are in place and they’re not damaged by tilling, you’re breaking them up where they’re, they can blow away in the wind or wash away when it rains, but instead they’re intact.

And they’re leaving all these pore spaces for both air exchange and water exchange. So if they don’t till and they keep the soil covered with this prior crop, Or they lightly disc it in without damaging, without really damaging the soil. And you left all those roots from the cover crop in place that are now, the cover crop’s dead.

Those roots are going to decay and be food for microbes and they create pathways. Right. So everywhere that there was a root that now gets decomposed, that’s an airway or a waterway, right? It’s it’s like a little freeway in the soil. And so you’re creating all this structure in the soil and that’s better for the next plant that comes along because one, [00:12:00] the microbes are already there and And it’s easier for the roots to find their way and get access to more water more air more mineral 

Hope: So you’re the soil and I think like when I first heard because actually I have the book I haven’t finished yet But I have the book and learning about this soil.

I think a lot of people don’t see that connection With the soil and climate change and like how the soil actually does affect the quality of your food So can you talk a little bit about? What the difference is in our food and the food that’s grown in soil like that like soil that has all the microbes and all That and then the food that I guess like conventionally that we’re used to that’s not exactly grown in those conditions Like what is the difference?

Don: Well, generally it gets back to plant health, and I’ll just relate it to human health, right? So if you eat a bunch of, and I’m sorry, I’m going to pick on a couple companies, but let’s say you eat Pringles and Doritos and Coca Cola and that’s your diet, right? So if you eat [00:13:00] all junk food all the time, your body over time is going to have some issues.

And it’s the same if you’re a plant and right now the way we grow plants. It’s not about nutritional density It’s about yield 

Hope: right, 

Don: right So we’re able to get the yield using our magic formulas that we use with lots of chemicals, etc So we’re doing a chemistry set instead of a biological process We’re more involved in, okay, well, if I give it this much nitrogen, this much potassium and this much phosphorus, I know I’m going to get this yield, but is that yield high quality?

And the answer is no, it’s not. And you can test it. The USDA has really long running tests that show the nutritional qualities gone down over the decades for like the last 80 years. And you can see that you actually need to eat more food to get the same level of trace elements, for example, and it’s hard to find that data because they’ve made it hard to find, but there’s, there is research [00:14:00] out there.

And the UK also has research on that. But if you have a truly healthy soil where the plant is really healthy, Guess what? It’s resistant to diseases and pests. Just like you would be if you ate really healthy food versus your Coca Cola, Dorito, and Pringle diet. 

Hope: Yeah. Yeah. 

Don: Right? You’re going to get run down and sick most likely because you’re not getting all the nutrients that you should be getting.

And the same is true when we eat this food that’s grown in these ways that aren’t nutritionally dense. We eventually get a little bit sicker, and you might notice that in our current population the rates of Disease are growing. 

Hope: Yeah, 

Don: pretty exponentially and that goes from everything from ADHD to obesity, etc Food that we’re eating just isn’t quite the same quality and some people just say oh well That’s just because we’re eating You know, white processed food and sugar, but it’s more than that.

It’s [00:15:00] actually more than that. And there’s plenty of studies that show the amount, like if you’re in a really healthy soil, the plant doesn’t have any pest pressure. It doesn’t have diseases. It’s so robust. It literally is disease free. 

Hope: Yeah. 

Don: Now, would you rather be eating that food or would you Be eating the one that would be covered with bugs except what do we do when it’s not healthy and covered with bugs?

We spray it right? So we find Definite, you know different sides whether it’s herbicides fungicides pesticides hematocytes, whatever something that killer, an antibiotic of some type. 

Hope: Right. 

Don: And so I want to treat the soil with probiotics versus antibiotics. 

Hope: Right, yeah, that makes sense. And then what educational opportunities, I know that’s a big piece of Kiss the Ground, what kind of education are you providing for people to learn more about this and like how we can affect climate change?

Don: Right, so, uh, we just finished probably one [00:16:00] of our last live in person classes. We had 250 students in our last course, actually 267 students in our last course, and it’s great, and we’re probably going to make our course, or we are in the process of making our course evergreen, meaning that it’ll be up there, we’re not going to have face to face with our students as often.

And it’s just going to be a course that anybody can take at any time as opposed to having to wait till Our next course is offered and we’re trying to do this because it’s more efficient And we can have a lot more people see our class and take it at an appropriate time. So we teach about this, which is more for people that are interested in advocating for healthy soil.

So we have that course, which is soil advocate training. And then we also have what we do for farmers where we’re not the educators, but we help raise money for farmers. So that farmers that want to get educated through a [00:17:00] company called the Soil Health Academy, but it’s all done through Kiss the Ground, people apply for scholarships through us, and then we subsidize them getting trained by actual farmers that have, you know, years of experience doing this, so that they can learn.

And it’s a multi year process, it’s a three year plan, where they’re literally monitoring their soil health. Throughout the three years and implementing all the practices, you know, that basically the five principles and it’s different for every single farmer because they’re going to be doing different crops in different parts of the world.

Hope: So what kind of turnaround have y’all seen on that? Like, how many farmers do y’all have coming in on a regular basis to kind of transition into that regenerative farming model? 

Don: So all I can say is not enough. But we do have, we do have a lot going through it, but it’s nowhere close to the acreage that we need to address.

Hope: Yeah. 

Don: And so that’s kind of, that’s what we’re trying to do, or what [00:18:00] we are doing is just scaling our models so that, you know, obviously we need more philanthropy, more people to donate to us, And help support more farmers and we’re working on different models to get this To scale as fast as possible because for the average farmer, it’s just too risky to try and convert. 

Hope: Right.

Don: It’s you know, they’re used to a certain way They know what they’re gonna get and if you tell them to you know, it’s like oh here try it this way Well, if it fails in year one, they lose the farm, right? You can’t afford to fail 

Hope: Yeah, 

Don: so how do we de risk it and that’s what we’re working on is taking the risk away from for farmers so that they can do this without fear and ultimately get the government to change its subsidy program, which funds degenerative agriculture and doesn’t do anything for regenerative agriculture.

Hope: Yeah, and that’s going to be my next question. Do y’all have any sort of, I don’t know if lobbyists would be the right word, but are y’all doing anything to help with [00:19:00] that part of it? 

Don: Yes, we also work on policy as well. So, even during the Democratic presidential debates, we were contacting the candidates and giving them all the talking points about regenerative agriculture, and if you listened closely to the debates, you would have heard the word regenerative agriculture mentioned a couple times.

Hope: Oh, hey, that’s awesome. 

Don: And that was because we were out there. Pushing the benefits of regenerative ag and so the terms have been used and in the state of california Like we’ve had great inroads with governor gavin newsom. He’s actually listened to our presentation He’s fully on board. We have the california healthy soils initiative But there’s also healthy soil initiatives in other states throughout the country and we work closely with All kinds of people trying to get other states involved and and on board and really trying to support farmers In this transition that’s so important 

Hope: Right. 

Don: And that’s you know, [00:20:00] it’s a huge effort 

Hope: Yeah, no, it’s a big undertaking.

Well and imagine I guess like you were saying the biggest Resistance is just the risk right that the risk that they’re undertaking Making the transition because I know i’d heard in Another podcast dr. Hyman was talking about like the the demographic of farmers, and they’re all I don’t remember that percentage But it was well over 50 percent that are it’s like, you know generational and they’re super old And so I’m sure they’re you know, they’re stuck in their ways and 

Don: you have to be careful how you say that. 

Hope: I know I know, 

Don: but the average age the average age of farmers is Definitely almost 60.

Hope: Yeah, 

Don: and so And the problem is, is that it’s so much work, it’s so hard, they’re like, farmers are the hardest working people I know, literally, they know how to fix anything on the farm, they have to know how to market, they have to deal with the weather, they have to, literally, they have to deal with so many variables.

And yet they don’t get paid very well. They have to deal with all these hazardous chemicals. They have salespeople [00:21:00] pushing product on them all the time saying, well, you got to do this now. Oh, well here, we’ve genetically engineered this. And then you got to use this product with it. And they’re getting all their information from people that are selling them something.

As opposed to learning from, you know, this is a way that nature works. Um, all the nitrogen is actually in the air that you breathe. And the way nitrogen used to get into the soil is through interaction with microbes. And you’re killing all your microbes, so the nitrogen is not getting in the soil. Then you apply more chemicals to the soil, kill more microbes.

And you just break the system, right? You break the soil building system. 

So, trying to get farmers properly educated is challenging, and then, you know, you don’t want to offend the farmer either and say, you don’t know what you’re doing, but the reality is that some of these people that teach regenerative ag, they had no idea how soil worked, and they were teaching people the wrong way for decades, and then all of a sudden they realized, wow, these methods really don’t work.

I mean, this is what the university taught me, and they [00:22:00] observed for a couple decades and finally said, This doesn’t seem to work and they’ve saw other people doing things differently and going oh my god I’ve been telling people the wrong way for so long. I’ve got to do something different 

Hope: Yeah, 

Don: but it is truly amazing when you see what somebody can do when they’re doing everything, right?

Hope: Yeah, 

Don: unbelievable and then you taste the food and that’s it. That’s the game changer. Yeah taste the food. 

Hope: Yeah, it’s that different 

Don: It’s that different. Yeah. 

Hope: So are the farmers finding you? Are you seeking them out? Like, how did they learn about this? 

Don: Yeah, it’s kind of a mix. So they might hear about us at a conference or see something that we put out and we have lots of advocates, you know, we’ve trained thousands of people now.

So farmers do hear about us and then, you know, our scholarship programs on our website. So if you go to You know, kisstheground.com, you can find out about it and then you can apply. 

Hope: Yeah

Don: So, people are finding out about it through various means. And [00:23:00] it’s kind of a word of, I don’t know, it’s a, it’s a Google word of mouth type of thing.

We haven’t been, you know, we’re not putting up billboards anywhere that say, Hey, if you’re a big farmer, contact us. But, but it is, it’s definitely happening. 

Hope: Yeah. Yeah. So then I know a lot of people listening and a lot of people that have you know Are learning about climate change kind of feel like well, like what am I gonna do about this global issue?

So what do you just based on your experience and what you’re teaching what you’re how you’re educating people through kiss the ground What are things that just regular everyday people can do to help not just with the cause but just kind of in general? Like what can we do to be more responsible? 

Don: Yeah, so the one that no one likes to hear is the most important one, which is to get educated, right?

Do a little bit of education, and the more you hear, I mean you can just listen, there’s a few podcasts, you listen to a podcast while you’re driving, well now while you’re sitting at home. 

Hope: Right. 

Don: And you can’t go anywhere, but [00:24:00] Literally, you can find out information about how your food is grown, and once you start to understand that you are what you eat, and that how we take care of the planet, and how we eat are totally connected, that’s a really big step.

You can compost, but really, you vote, you know, three times a day, if you eat three meals a day, you’re voting three times a day with what You want your future to look like. So you could go to the farmer’s market. And even if you go and you just, ge t whatever the farmer’s providing, it’ll be fresher. 

Hope: Mmhmm. 

Don: Then when you start to find out that, wow, this farmer’s strawberries taste better than anybody else’s strawberries, what are they doing different?

And then you can start to have those conversations. And if you read a book, read one book, like read kiss the ground or. Growing a Revolution by David Montgomery, or just some book about this topic. And then you become that much more [00:25:00] educated and just that in itself will help you change your buying habits.

Hope: Yeah. 

Don: And if everyone voted with their dollar, 

Hope: yeah, 

Don: this stuff would change overnight. 

Hope: Yeah. 

Don: It’s just that people don’t, they don’t know. They don’t really want to know because it’s inconvenient if you like eating certain foods to find out, wow, that’s really not good for me, but I really like the taste of that.

Hope: Yeah, that’s true. Yeah.

Don: But if you read a book called The Dorito Effect, that’s.

That’s a really informative book that teaches you how you’ve been duped by the chemical industry to become addicted to flavors, but the flavor is not, it used to come in our food, 

Hope: Mmhmm 

Don: but Now it’s like food doesn’t have any flavor. So you have to buy food that’s adulterated with different chemistry. 

Hope: Like from a lab.

Yeah. 

Don: Yeah, so that you actually go. Oh, this tastes great. 

Hope: That’s crazy. 

Don: Yeah, it’s really crazy. 

Hope: I’m gonna have to [00:26:00] find that one out now. I’m intrigued. 

Don: Yeah, it’s a great it’s a great It’s a one of those fun reads. Yeah where you read it in your On one hand, fascinated and entertained, and then you’re kind of like, oh my god, it is a scam.

Hope: Yeah, yeah, that’s crazy. Okay, well, what do you see as like the long term impact? Like, what is kind of y’all’s vision? I know that the documentary, that’s really exciting, but what do you see as kind of the long term impact and the vision for Kiss the Ground in the future? 

Don: Well, in the future, we won’t have to exist.

That would be the long term plan is that Kiss the Ground would be able to disband and say, we helped change the world, right? Like, and you know, not to take credit, there’s all these brilliant people and we’re just sharing information. There’s so much science out there and the scientists. Aren’t always the best storytellers because it’s too sciency and so we’re just trying to make it So it appeals to people and and that’s [00:27:00] really we want to see all Agriculture and even people’s yards right like the chemical lawns disappear.

We just want to see everybody Working in alignment with nature to build this planet back 

Hope: Yeah, 

Don: and that’s really being regenerative in all aspects. So regenerative businesses regenerative You Whatever lifestyles if you will. 

Hope: Yeah. 

Don: So when people are just thinking about future generations and not just the next quarter’s bottom line 

Hope: Right, 

Don: that’s really the goal and you it’s not like you can’t make money doing this.

I’m not anti money It’s literally how do we do this in a way that? profitable and Good for the planet, right? 

Hope: Right. Yeah, exactly So I like to end every one of these episodes with the same question, but I want to kind of relate it to climate change and your experience and you’ve, you’ve kind of touched on it a little bit.

Maybe you have something else you want to add, but what do you think is the most important [00:28:00] change people can make or the most important thing they can do to live with purpose and have a real effect on climate change? 

Don: Yeah, um, there’s so many, it’s a long list. The most important thing is literally paying attention to the food that they buy.

I would say that’s the most important thing. And then, you know, if you start to see how all systems are interrelated and everything’s connected, like if you really pay attention to how things are connected, It makes a huge difference. And then if you share something, not from a, I know this and you don’t, and you’re ignorant, but share something like this.

Is what I experienced like this is what I thought and I had this experience and it was life changing I’m not telling you to do it. I’m just sharing like this is what happened And so I think those are a few a couple of things that you can do 

Hope: Yeah, no, I love that. 

Don: Learn how to live, you know [00:29:00] a little bit more thoughtfully.

Hope: Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I would agree with that. I’m really excited about those books, too 

Don: Yeah, we have a long list of books on our website, but 

Hope: yeah, I’m gonna check those out. Yeah.

Don: We have, 

Hope: it’s, it’s a kiss. The ground is the website, kiss the ground. com, right? 

Don: Correct. 

Hope: Resources. Okay. 

Don: Yeah. And we are a nonprofit, even though we’re a. com, but we, we are a nonprofit and you can become a member of kiss the ground and support us and do a monthly donation and that entitles you to certain benefits.

And we have, uh, we have tons of information. Free classes on, uh, different people talk. I think you just heard Mark, Dr. Mark Hyman speak, but we have lots of those monthly things. I’ll be doing a Q&A once a month where people can come in and just ask me what it’s pretty much wide open. It’s like, ask me a question.

They are wide ranging topics. So it’s always fun. 

Hope: Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, thank you [00:30:00] so much for talking with me and just educating everybody on this. I’m excited to learn more. I’m really excited for y’all’s documentary. So I’m going to be looking out for that. But thank you so much for just everything that y’all are doing.

I think this is like really groundbreaking. 

Don: Yeah, well, thanks for having us on. I hope you know, this is great for your business and your clients a You know another thing to look into because people pay like oh, I’m gonna work out and it’s like but they don’t pay attention to What they eat Everything’s related right?

You’re exercising because you want to be healthy, but you don’t You’re not putting the right stuff in your body, and you don’t even know because you haven’t gotten educated You’re like I eat all these great, you know foods, but they’re really not great. 

Hope: Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s so true Yeah, it’s so true. Well, thank you.

Thank you so much for all of this. This is great 

Don: Thank you hope 

Hope: Thanks for listening to hopeful and wholesome y’all If you found value in this week’s episode, please subscribe on itunes Wherever you get your podcast and leave a review to let me [00:31:00] know what you thought I’d love to know what you find useful in these episodes So I know how I can provide the most value I can to my listeners And if you have topics that you want to know more about i’d love to hear those as well So shoot me a message on instagram facebook or linkedin.

It’s at the hope pedraza or visit my website hopeful and wholesome. com Thanks, y’all